Christ Alone

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Posts by Christ Alone

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  95

  An interesting article on scientific explanations of near-death / out-of-body experiences

  by cedars in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been doing quite a bit of research into books recently, and i've noticed that the book "proof of heaven" is selling very strongly at the moment.

  it's currently no.1 in the new york times bestseller list for nonfiction paperbacks.. the book is by a qualified neurosurgeon who converted to religious faith after going into a coma and having what he later described as an experience of heaven, which he elaborates on in great detail in the book.

  he argues that the experience must have been supernatural, because his cerebral cortex was "offline" for the duration of his vision.. .

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  Christ Alone

  Personally, I haven't had enough "in-body" experiences to satisfy me.
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  259

  The Gentile Times Reconsidered (607 B.C.E.) -Part A1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12 Reviewed

  by FaceTheFacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during the last three to four months, i have spent a great deal of time sinking my teeth into various critical biblical commentaries and lexicons.

  naturally, after beginning to research "the truth about the truth" one of the most commonplace yet controversial arguments revolve around the "gentile times" doctrine (i.e.

  the application of the seven times of daniel 4 from 607 b.c.e.

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  Christ Alone

  If others are benefitted in the process, then that's just an added benefit.

  No one is benefited by the attempt to promulgate false prophecy. No one is benefited by a complete lack of historical understanding and scripture twisting to support a false prophecy.

  You need to "Face the Fact" that you are absolutely alone in the belief that 607 was a valid date for the events you describe. Every part of history and archeology has proven you wrong. To keep the date you have to reject all of it, and twist scripture to come up with your own date. A date that scripture does not state.
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  259

  The Gentile Times Reconsidered (607 B.C.E.) -Part A1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12 Reviewed

  by FaceTheFacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during the last three to four months, i have spent a great deal of time sinking my teeth into various critical biblical commentaries and lexicons.

  naturally, after beginning to research "the truth about the truth" one of the most commonplace yet controversial arguments revolve around the "gentile times" doctrine (i.e.

  the application of the seven times of daniel 4 from 607 b.c.e.

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  Christ Alone

  Just one more quick statement. I made the comment that archeology proves that 607 is a false date. Just wanted to give some back up for that.

  The Hillah Stele, also known as “ Nabon. #8 ” was discovered in the late 1800's in the area of Hillah, a place located southeast of Babylon. This archaeological find contains irrefutable evidence against the Watchtower Society's teaching of the 607 B.C.E . date.

  The Hillah Stele establishes the kingly time-line because it records specific astronomical events which happened during the first years of the reign of Babylon's last ruling monarch, Nabonidus. The specified events include: The visibility of the planets Venus, Saturn and Jupiter after dusk while Mercury and Mars were not, along with the appearance of specific bright stars. Professor Hildegard Lewy* used this information to calculate the date of his reign and realized : “The only time within the given interval when this constellation occurred was the period of 3 days comprised between Simanu 2 and Simanu 6 of Nabunaid's [a.k.a. Nabonidus] first full year (May 31 - June 4, 555 B.C.E.), during which period, in fact, also the fixed stars enumerated by the king were visible in the evening sky.” This solidly establishes the time of Nabonidus's ascension year as being 556 B.C.E . This 556 B.C.E . ascension year is accepted by the Watchtower Society (Insight On the Scriptures, 1988, Vol.2 p.457 subheading “Nabonidus”).

  This stele goes on to confirm the reign of Nabonidus lasting for 17 years. When paired with other items of archaeological evidence, namely the Babylonian Chronicle, a.k.a. BM 21901, and the Harran inscription, a.k.a. Nabon. H1,B, confirmation is made regarding certain events during the kingly time-line of that period, specifically the time-line from Nabopolassar's 16th year to Nabonidus, a 54 year period which ended in the fall of Babylon in 539 B.C.E . (Nabopolassar was the ruler at the start of this time-line; his successor was Nebuchadnezzar).

  Therefore, going backwards through the time line, since this stele establishes Nabonidus's ascension year as 556 B.C.E ., then Nabopolassar would have his first year begin around 625/626 B.C.E . This means that Nebuchadnezzar's first regnal year was around 604/603 B.C.E ., which means his 18th year – in which he took Jerusalem (Jeremiah 32:1-2) – would have to have been about 586/587 B.C.E ., not the Watchtower's date of 607 B.C.E . And these dates are all in agreement with those of Berossus and Ptolemy's lists.

  So to try and argue Jeremiah...it's pointless. The Bible does not give any specific dates. So you must start with at least one accepted date that archeology provides, and work from that. You guys choose one date and reject another. It's really very sad...
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  259

  The Gentile Times Reconsidered (607 B.C.E.) -Part A1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12 Reviewed

  by FaceTheFacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during the last three to four months, i have spent a great deal of time sinking my teeth into various critical biblical commentaries and lexicons.

  naturally, after beginning to research "the truth about the truth" one of the most commonplace yet controversial arguments revolve around the "gentile times" doctrine (i.e.

  the application of the seven times of daniel 4 from 607 b.c.e.

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  Christ Alone

  I'm just going to quickly interject here. Last year (2011) before the Harold Camping prophecy of May didn't come, I read much of what he wrote about chronology. It looked VERY similar to what the WT has written, and what Won't Face the Facts has written above.

  This use of the Bible to set future dates was nothing new. As was brought out, many men before Russell used the Bible to set future dates. John Aquila Brown, William Miller, E. B. Elliott, Robert Seeley, Joseph Seiss and Barbour were among those that tried to manipulate the Bible for their own false prophesies.

  I really think that Won't Face the Facts has some cognitive dissonance going on here, and that is why he is trying so hard to defend the false dates set by the WT. It comes from paranoia that if they were wrong on this, they could be wrong on everything else. Paranoia that there is no where else to go if he leaves the WT. Of course, likely he won't admit to this.

  Archeology itself has proven the 607 date absolutely wrong. The proof is so strong that there is not even a debate in the scientific community as to when Jerusalem fell. Only JWs and a few very small groups still hold to the erroneous 607 date. The WT MUST hold to this date because of their 1919 prophecy. I believe that is a more important date to them than 1914.

  When archelogists, historians, and other scientists see the teaching the WT has about 607, they laugh. It has so thoroughly been debunked that there doesn't even need to be discussion. And this is where I make my exit. I'm a tad bit sad and embarassed for the intelligence of those that still hold to the 607 date. For the most part I have to think that they are smarter than this. I think Won't Face the Facts IS smarter....but he MUST hold on to the WT teaching because it is his only rock. Too bad Jesus isn't that rock.
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  46

  kjw53 i am offering you a challange!

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to have an open and honest discussion out in the open between just you and me, about if being born agian is only of the 144,000 or is it a must for all to live forever on earth.

  neither of us can avoid questions and must answer the other question before ,the other can ask another question.

  no going off topic and only talk about this.

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  Christ Alone

  No threats. Just IF you consider yourself a Christian, this is important. If Jesus says you MUST be born again, then you have to ask, "Or what?"
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  46

  kjw53 i am offering you a challange!

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to have an open and honest discussion out in the open between just you and me, about if being born agian is only of the 144,000 or is it a must for all to live forever on earth.

  neither of us can avoid questions and must answer the other question before ,the other can ask another question.

  no going off topic and only talk about this.

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  Christ Alone

  Kjw53, I don't mean to pick on you, but I have to say I hope you take this thread and use it in further research. The fact that you don't know what being born again means, what being anointed means, and just chalk it up to putting on a new personality is shocking to hear from someone that claims to be a Christian.

  The other sad thing is that you think this is an issue between following someone (like unstopable) or following the "FDS" or Watchtower publishing organization. This is not an us vs them issue. Unstopable was trying to discuss with you what the Bible says about this issue, but you turned it into "I will side with the FDS over you." How bout side with Jesus over anyone else?

  What did Jesus say? Jesus was clear that you MUST be born again to see the Kingdom of God. (John 3) Please read John 3. Jesus said " " Do not marvel that I said to you, 'YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.' "

  So we have a clear statement that being born again means being born of the SPIRIT! That means that you are anointed by the Holy Spirit. There is no other option. You must either be born of the Spirit, or you are of the flesh and essentially dead. There is no TWO hopes. There is ONE hope. (Eph 4:4)

  This is ESSENTIAL, kjw53. This isn't something we can be wrong about. We can be wrong in a lot of our doctrine. But not this one. Our salvation is involved.

  However, the WT official stand is this: Those of the Great Crowd are NOT to be born again. They are NOT to observe the memorial (which Jesus commanded). There is absolutely NO scripture that says that this should be. Find me a single scripture where Christians are NOT to partake of bread and wine. Find me a single scripture where Christians are NOT to be born again.

  You cannot find them. They don't exist. The doctrine only exists in the Watchtower magazine. Please research this yourself, kjw53. I can't stress the importance of it enough. You do not want to find yourself one of those who is before Jesus and says "Lord, Lord, did I not...?"
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  92

  Your earliest doubt?

  by Apognophos in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this might be an unfair question for those who have been out of the organization for decades, but i'm wondering if any of you remember your earliest doubt -- maybe something odd that occurred to you as a kid (if you were a jw then).

  please try to limit to two doubts at the most :-).

  i think my first "doubt" was simply realizing that at the time of the flood, every animal that wasn't in the ark died (well, besides the fish, supposedly).

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  Christ Alone

  It was realizing that the nice "Christian" lady next door and hitler would have the same "punishment".
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  10

  Screw You, Bethel

  by ronwashington in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know we have quite a few ex-bethelites here, young and old.

  use this thread to talk about the stuff you hated there, any crazy stories, or anything else that might get a laugh and show how screwed up the house of god is.. .

  i'll post one: boiled eggs.

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  Christ Alone

  I didn't mind the food at bethel. Sometimes it was actually pretty good. Once a year they would have liver for lunch. No one showed up for that. I actually felt bad for the jws that were visiting someone that day for lunch.
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  18

  Bible Study with JW Starts with the book of John

  by FingersCrossed in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  john and onwards for a start?.

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  Christ Alone

  Personally I find a study of Romans to initially be helpful to JWs rather than John. For John all the "problems" that the JW faces are doctrinal and impersonal to them. They will argue against Jesus being God because they have been constantly taught against this. They will not want to stick to John, but will want to skip all over the New Testament (Greek Scriptures to them) and "prove" that Jesus was created.

  However, Romans can be different. Romans 8:11 is specifically hard for a JW. " If, now, the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in YOU, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make YOUR mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in YOU."

  The problem is that Paul does not give any other option. There is either to live by the Spirit, which is life. Or live as to flesh, which is death. You must either be anointed, or be unacceptable to God.

  Anyway, I wish you luck in your study with the JW in John. But I would consider attempting to shift to a discussion about Romans and it's obvious implications towards those that do not feel that they must be spirit anointed, or born again.
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  74

  Evidence of Supernatural Ability

  by GromitSK in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would be interested to hear members' views on:.

  a) what they would consider to be a supernatural ability and.

  b) what they would consider sufficient evidence to convince them it was genuine.. (it's late here so if i don't participate for the next few hours don't think i cut and run :)).

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  Christ Alone

  I can't see why asking for proof is wrong or inappropriate. If I can't provide evidence to support what I believe why would someone else accept it? Same applies to Big Bangs :)

  I never said asking for proof is wrong! Sometimes proof enough for me is not for someone else and that's fine. I was commenting mainly on the rejection of anything supernatural or outside our natural universe. If there is something outside the physical realm, it is to be rejected, supposedly. If I talk about multiple dimensions in a scientific realm, that's ok. Many atheistic scientists will accept that it is possible. But if I talk about a spiritual dimension that is outside our natural dimension, it will be jumped all over. I will be asked to define words like "nothing" "something" "universe" "dimension" "supernatural" "spiritual", etc. Because of my belief that there is a spiritual reality that is outside our physical one, I am called delusional, someone who doesn't need proof, someone that only has blind faith, etc.

  That's all I was saying. The supernatural is unavoidable when you deal with origins. Something from nothing.